This is what it all boils down to you have the right to your freedom but it comes at a price, are you willing to pay that price!

Don't mean to imply that I wouldn't chg the stock pipes out, just not a high priority right now. BullDog....do they require liberals in your neck of the woods to wear signs??? LOL Now there is a novel concept ! We could really say "Here's your sign" then.

Its Washington dude! If they required that it would bring back they old tune "Sign sign everywhere a sign..." I live in a State where people call the cops if you mow your lawn too early! A State where when they start to enforce the 5 year limit to welfare it starts a huge contraversy...

So... I think "Loud Pipes Risk Rights" is trying to make a point. But in reality, that point is pointless. There are poeple with RIGHTS and then there are people with OBLIGATIONS. I live on both sides of the fence. I fulfill my obligations to society and myself, and then on my free time, I live FREE!

Hoz I debated this on another forum with you, before. First let's address the idea of rights. Riding is not an inalienable right. You may pay taxes on the road, but you agree to the fact that use of public roads is a privlege when you apply for a drivers licence. Continued use of said privlege is contingent upon your compliance with the rules and laws governing said privlege. That being said you claim that it is your right is completely inaccurate...
Now as for my opinion on the matter... My pipes are not stock, nor are they EPA approved. My exhuast mods are for performance, not noise level. That of course does imply that they are louder than stock, and louder then approved in some areas. if I have to pay a fine for this, I will accept that, and go on with my life. I have gotten away with so much, over the years, that I kind of figure I have a few citations owed, and I will take them without excessive complaint. I will vote to change laws that I do not like, but I also understand that in this process I will not always get the result I am happy with
Unfortunately I think we are going to have to give a little on this one. Those making excessive noise irritate joe citizen and undermine our credibility when we collectively battle larger issues, like the Georgia motorcycle only checks. At some point we have to step back and compromise on some issues to gain on others. We will not get everything we want. That we all know and understand. What we have to do is demand all that we want, but be ready to compromise to get what is most important

You said it all... Let us ride our ride 4 months out of the year... with our loud pipes that let other drivers know were there! I feel alive the most when i am on my biike! Johnny

Like everything else it's about the $$. If they figure out a way to make some due to loud pipes they will. A good compromise would be to fine the guy caught blimping the throttle or the guy that revs the engine when under an overpass or in a tunnel.

The never-ending argument. Riding is not a right, it's a privilege that can be taken away. Heretic said it well.

The argument that loud pipes are safer is not supported statistically nor in common experience. Next time you're in the cage and see a bike coming, close your eyes (or look elsewhere) then note when you first hear the approaching bike. With the windows up, radio on, AC going, a.k.a. everyone on four wheels, the bike is typically on top of you, if not past by the time you hear it, even with straight pipes. The notion that the cager is going to hear you coming, identify from which direction, recognize and see it's a motorcycle, and react or take evasive action all within the fraction of time remaining is expecting an awful lot and putting a lot of faith in the abilities of those other drivers. Better defensive driving and awareness on your part is a whole lot more effective.

I live and work in many of those motorcycle destination towns you like to ride to and visit where I'm involved in promoting motorcycling. I occasionally find myself at Chamber of Commerce meetings, etc, where motorcycle events are proposed and fought for each year. I see them nixed as often as they are permitted, and it's almost always the same objection - we don't want the noise here. We love the business, but don't want to put up with all the complaints. Let them go elsewhere. Let the motorcycle businesses go elsewhere. It impacts where I am welcome, where I find other businesses which welcome and serve me, and the growth of our sport and industry.

Choices have consequences. Bikes don't roll out of the dealer with loud or straight pipes. Those modifications are a choice. It may not mean squat where you live, maybe nobody cares there. You're just one bike. But in those destinations where you ride to, where thousands of other bikers also recreate, the combined impact on the communities is largely detrimental to our passion to ride there and it affects how our sport is perceived and encouraged to flourish. You rarely see a "motorcycles not welcome" sign anymore, in this economy nobody is turning down business, but the sentiment remains and you may be "tolerated" for the time being.

"Noise ordinance enforced" signs, biker only checkpoints, more laws and regulations are all obvious evidence there's an issue, but it's only the tip of the iceberg. I get to see the "behind the scenes" impact that communities deal with and how it affects us motorcyclists in ways few recognize and it's a lot bigger than you think.

None of these arguments will change long standing opinions. Those who hold to loud pipes as a safety enhancement, or that making noise is their right and freedom, are already reading in some other forum after dismissing me as just one more assh*le who doesn't get it. See you at the checkpoint.

I made my statement earlier about the stock or aftermarket. Now from 30 plus years in emergency services and trips transfering ambulamce patients 90 + miles before the helocopters and fire department responces both cities and country. I have found that air horns, sirens, flashing lights multiple 100 watt projection speakers at 125 db each running differant modes does not get peoples attention. I have followed people for miles at 70 mph and they were unaware of my presents. I have split lanes and surprised them as I passed. It is now a part of drivers trainning for emergency vehicles to stop at intersections and wait fo the traffic to "YEILD" before crossing because people are not involved in their driving. You proceed only when you see them "SEE" you. LOUD PIPES SAVES LIVES, Don't bet your life on it. I have been there and when the Radios and Amps in a vehicle can be heard blockes away can they use that same excuse. It Is against the law to have a radio heard more than 50 ft away from the source (amplified electronic device) in Wisconsin. Now the plug in earphones that can be heard as they pass on a bicycle pound against the pea brain that is wearing them beating out any future of hearing at an older age as proved by industrial hearing test have. You are fighting a loosing battle with the public and your right to do as you wish. Too many loud pipes are spoiling the image of a motorcycle riding family.

Much well said stuff guys! Then the correction should be "Loud Pipes Risk Priveledges" and "Liberals Risk Rights!"

I would like to see a study to determine how much is contributed to society by people who own Harleys with aftermarket pipes, compared to how much is contributed by people who bitch about loud pipes...

WOW!!! Good discussion from both sides, but we arn't gonna solve this. I don't think the average cager is gonna noyice loud pipes, for all the reasons given above. Here in NC, no baffles, The ride does not pass inspection. No inspection, no registration renewal. No, in this liberalized society we all live in now-days, as long as even one person complains, it will be taken as No Noise is good for all, so shut down all of it.

Be honest here. How may times have ya cracked the throttle when you didn't need to??? I know I have done it on other rides I have owned. My ride now is no less enjoyable less the loud pipes as the rides I took when I had loud pipes. I would mucj rather give up loud pipes that have motorcycle only checkpoints, or restricted areas for motorcycles, etc.

now what I am about to say is opinion only, so do not argue it as gospel..... I do not think most law enforcement officers really care about pipes being louder then stock, so long as the riders are responsible. .
My pipes are one off, and there is no way to mistake them for stock. The steel core for a baffle is there, but it is straight through, and there is no packing. I have not once been bothered for loud pipes, even though I have a larger then stock engine with a lot of cam overlap... the reason I attribute this to is that I do not try to rattle windows with my pipes.

I admit it is fun to set off a car alarm now and then, but there has to be a limit, or there are consequences that will follow

We live in a high deer area, when I changed from stock pipes to V&H the first thing I noticed is the deer were stopping or freezing farther back from the road. The next thing I learned was when riding in rush hour traffic to drop down 1 gear and you see the cage drivers suddenly looking around for the source of the noise. I run the quiet baffles with all the packing and to be honest don't like riding with someone with no baffles. There is such a thing as too loud.

Back in the 70's here in Ohio they would occasionally stop bikes for excessive noise. They had a simple test, they shoved a flare up the pipe and if it when most of the way in you got a ticket. Of course then there were guys drilling and running a bolt through their straight pipes. The point I'm trying to make is regulation did not curb the noise back then so why would it work now?

So... is the issue the pipes or is it the rider?

Unfortunately, here in California we have a new law signed by Arnold that adds more noise regulation. Requires a stamp/sticker showing that the dbs. are stock or within approved limits. This will spread because we could not self-regulate.. A few straight pipes and we all suffer. I would like a little more dbs than my HD slip ons provide too. I actually sold my Road King in part because I would get a head ache from the V&H pipes even with foam plugs in my ear.. Still, want to find a happy medium between too load and too soft stock rumble... Motorcycle Consumer News ran a product report last year about a very affective deer whistle or something like one that they tested!

Though you may be preaching to the choir brother, you articulate quite well, I actually feel the intensity in your frustration as I read through your posts and like you I'm completely baffled by how these ******* think they can tell us how what and where to ride and at what volume? What the **** business is it of theirs anyway, you don't see us asking for laws to stop people from listening to pussy music and buying ugly houses?